Vanderbilt Cup Races

That’s Harry Stillman in Olds #20 in the 1910 VCR.  Can’t readily find his mech. - odd.  Kudos - fugeddaboudit!  Sam, III

Based on the sweater, I’m guessing a Locomobile but after that I’ve come up empty. Looking forward the answer.

Going on quick guesses this weekend; Joe/Jim Florida in the #1Locomobile, 1908 races.

Although I always check your site on a daily basis, I normally do not compete in the weekly quizzes as they are either outside my scope of interest or too easy. This time I tried, but it appeared not possible for me to find a solution. As I suspected the car to be a Vanderbilt participant, I tried to match the steering wheel to the cars, but failed. Now I know the name of the driver I understand why. As we see James Florida, and the car must be a Locomobile, it cannot be the Vanderbilt racer because of the different steering wheel configuration. Looking a bit further it is now clear for me that we see James Florida during the Fairmount Park races in Philadelphia, 26th September 1908, where he (and also George Robertson) drove a different type of Locomobile racer, the type I 4-40, which was in fact a standard production model and which fits with the steering wheel configuration. Florida would finish on 5th place, Robertson was the winner.

Well, it sure LOOKED like a pic of Stillman which I now can’t locate but I did turn up this amazing Western Movie & TV Photos image of Buck Jones at Indy!  Sam, III

I can understand, see attached photograph of Stillman at the wheel of a Marmon. Myself I was convinced that the driver was Hugh Hughes, but I couldn’t make a Mercer from that steering wheel.

Indy driver Hughie Hughes DID look like both!  If it wasn’t for my whiskers, with enough oil and road grime, I’d probably look like all of ‘em, too!  Sam, III

Based on Ariejan Bos’ comment, I have revised the answers to last week’s Mystery Foto.

Amazing detective work by all. This one was out of my scope.

Back to the VCR - there’s detail of Florida’s crash in the linked 05 Dec 2013 blog post, “Chaos at the Finish of the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Race”, but it says he hit a roadster “carrying two girls and a driver”.  The photo seems to me to show FOUR people.  How about a new thread about that accident (or reopening the 2013 one); there MUST be far more info. available.  I thought we’d already covered it here but I can’t find any such.  Sam, III

Sam, the chaos and utter confusion of the 1908 VCR finish can be attributed partly to the fact that it appeared that Lytle finished first but since he had started before Roberston he actually finished second. They were the only ones that actually finished the race. Right after Robertson crosses the finish line the crowd poured out of the grandstand on to the track. Vanderbilt immediately sent word out ending the race. The cars still on the track had to slowly and carefully wind their way back to the finish line as there were already spectator cars on the race circuit. Vanderbilt’s Mercedes was awarded 3rd based on the 10th lap placement of the racers.

Florida was not aware of the race having ended and besides he was chasing third place. So he was still speeding towards the finish. The submitted photo seems to capture the moment directly after the impact. In the middle of the photo, emerging from the white clouds, the front of a light coloured racer can just be seen, which almost certainly is Florida’s Locomobile. According to The Horseless Age of October 28th Florida had hit a White steamer. This would explain the white clouds, being vapor clouds from that car. The car where Florida’s racer seems to be parked against, could very well be this car, as all visible details fit with a 1906 White. I added a photo of a 1906 White seen from the rear. Important details are the rear dumb irons and the rear axle. In a second photo, with even more vapor clouds, the ladies in the car on the left of the accident (which could be a Locomobile) are now standing and in the mist behind them a figure can be seen which could be either Florida or his mechanician. Lots of ‘could be’s, I realise, but still possible ...

Adding to what Ariejian Bos posted. The racers went off one at a time, Robertson about 10 minutes after Lytle. By the middle of the race it was pretty clear the race was going to be won by one of these two. After Lytle crossed the finish line no one followed him for several minutes.  So…some spectators assumed he won the race, started to leave. Robertson has trouble at Plainview leaving the course, not immediately getting back on, loosing a couple of minutes, shows up about 4 minutes later, beating Lytle by about 2 minutes.  Vanderbilt sees whats going on, immediately ends the race notifying all the telephone stations to inform the racers still on the course the race is over. Only 2 cars officially finish, Robertson and Lytle. Florida was determined to finish, has the accident, injuring David Schuh, 18 years old. At this point Vanderbilt is furious. It was said that he accused those grandstand spectators who went on to the track of acting like hoodlums. He became absolutely apoplectic when his Mercedes driven by Luttgen, finally arriving, brushed some spectators who were aiding the injured youngster.

I was just reading an account of the entire sweepstakes results in a 1908 Automobile Topics and came across this photo of Florida in the #1 Locomobile.